Reader Old 1811 commented on my post yesterday about my LEOSA (Law Enforcement Officers' Safety Act) qualification and in the comment asked a asked a question that should be on every persons mind who carries under the conditions of the Law Enforcement Officers' Safety Act. Here is that comment/question:
"I, too, am a LEOSA subject (retired ICE), and I have to drive through NY and NJ to visit family. I'm very leery of driving through either place (especially NJ) as I've heard horror stories of LEOSA carriers being arrested and charged just to get them into court so the charges can be dropped AFTER the perfectly-legal carrier has an arrest record and has paid big bucks to a lawyer.
Any tips on how to avoid that, other than not visiting my relatives?"
I will answer that question to the best of my ability. Please bear in mind, I am not a legislator, bureaucrat, prosecutor, lawyer, or LEO. While I am a retired LEO, what I am about to say about the law is based only my limited understanding of the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, the Firearms Owners Protection Act and the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1990 as a private citizen. To the best of my knowledge, everything I say is based upon those laws as amended and current but remember laws can change overnight as we witnessed in NY state with the passage of the NY SAFE Act under cover of darkness in the wee hours of the morning. In other words, the following is my opinion on all this and should be taken as just that - my opinion - and nothing more. My opinion holds little to no legal weight. If you want to understand how any jurisdiction will interpret these laws or enforce them then ask a politician, bureaucrat, prosecutor, or chief LEO but be ready for at least a few different answers from among them, maybe some or all agreeing, or maybe some or all disagreeing, with what I am about to say.
I am making a guess here but an educated one and am pretty sure that one way to avoid the hassles would be to lock the unloaded gun in a gun case (just the gun, no ammo), put the locked case
in your locked trunk. Keep any ammo in another locked box, also in the trunk of your vehicle. If your vehicle does not have a trunk, then keep the locked cases as far from you as possible in the vehicle. Bear in mind you may also want to keep any magazines in the locked box with the ammo, not with the gun and make sure they are unloaded too. Its my understanding that having the firearm(s) locked in a case in the trunk, as long as you are traveling from a place where it was legal for you to possess and going to a place where it is legal to possess, is covered under the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act but you have to do it the way it tells you to do it in the law. I strongly recommend going to the above link to read up on it.
Locking your firearm in a case in your trunk does reduce your chances of defending yourself while traveling but that is something you have to weigh against the chances of being stopped and arrested by overzealous police in a gun unfriendly state or locality. Sure, law enforcement can still hassle you and can still arrest you even if it is locked in the trunk but I think it much less likely if you transport it that way. The Firearms Owners Protection Act is questioned by LE much less often, than is carry on your person under LEOSA, as far as I am aware.
If you carry a firearm on your person (or in your vehicle) and pass through a school zone (see paragraph 25), which means within 1,000 of a primary or secondary school, you are violating federal law if you do not have a permit/license from the state in which you are doing so or do not follow some other exemptions under that statute. While traveling through school zones, as defined under that law, the way around that is to not have it on your person and to have it in a locked case in the vehicle and it has to be unloaded. Bear in mind that some jurisdictions, like NY City, consider a firearm loaded even if there is a magazine with ammo in the same case even though the firearm is not actually loaded.
There have been prosecutions of retired LEOs, who thought themselves to have been legally carrying under LEOSA, for violating that federal law because they were within 1,000 feet of a school. Think about driving through a big city like NY or LA or Chicago - where could you possibly be without being within 1,000 feet of a school! I wish I could find the link to the map I once saw of a large city showing how it was virtually impossible to pass through the city without going through a school zone within the definition of a school zone under that law.
I strongly recommend taking a course on LEOSA like the one offered by the Sheepdog Academy. I think it will give you a lot of info you probably did not have before. Sadly, it also leaves a lot of new questions too but at least you would be able to consider things you likely did not before taking such a course.
All the best,
Glenn B
"I, too, am a LEOSA subject (retired ICE), and I have to drive through NY and NJ to visit family. I'm very leery of driving through either place (especially NJ) as I've heard horror stories of LEOSA carriers being arrested and charged just to get them into court so the charges can be dropped AFTER the perfectly-legal carrier has an arrest record and has paid big bucks to a lawyer.
Any tips on how to avoid that, other than not visiting my relatives?"
I will answer that question to the best of my ability. Please bear in mind, I am not a legislator, bureaucrat, prosecutor, lawyer, or LEO. While I am a retired LEO, what I am about to say about the law is based only my limited understanding of the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, the Firearms Owners Protection Act and the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1990 as a private citizen. To the best of my knowledge, everything I say is based upon those laws as amended and current but remember laws can change overnight as we witnessed in NY state with the passage of the NY SAFE Act under cover of darkness in the wee hours of the morning. In other words, the following is my opinion on all this and should be taken as just that - my opinion - and nothing more. My opinion holds little to no legal weight. If you want to understand how any jurisdiction will interpret these laws or enforce them then ask a politician, bureaucrat, prosecutor, or chief LEO but be ready for at least a few different answers from among them, maybe some or all agreeing, or maybe some or all disagreeing, with what I am about to say.
I am making a guess here but an educated one and am pretty sure that one way to avoid the hassles would be to lock the unloaded gun in a gun case (just the gun, no ammo), put the locked case
in your locked trunk. Keep any ammo in another locked box, also in the trunk of your vehicle. If your vehicle does not have a trunk, then keep the locked cases as far from you as possible in the vehicle. Bear in mind you may also want to keep any magazines in the locked box with the ammo, not with the gun and make sure they are unloaded too. Its my understanding that having the firearm(s) locked in a case in the trunk, as long as you are traveling from a place where it was legal for you to possess and going to a place where it is legal to possess, is covered under the Firearms Owners’ Protection Act but you have to do it the way it tells you to do it in the law. I strongly recommend going to the above link to read up on it.
Locking your firearm in a case in your trunk does reduce your chances of defending yourself while traveling but that is something you have to weigh against the chances of being stopped and arrested by overzealous police in a gun unfriendly state or locality. Sure, law enforcement can still hassle you and can still arrest you even if it is locked in the trunk but I think it much less likely if you transport it that way. The Firearms Owners Protection Act is questioned by LE much less often, than is carry on your person under LEOSA, as far as I am aware.
If you carry a firearm on your person (or in your vehicle) and pass through a school zone (see paragraph 25), which means within 1,000 of a primary or secondary school, you are violating federal law if you do not have a permit/license from the state in which you are doing so or do not follow some other exemptions under that statute. While traveling through school zones, as defined under that law, the way around that is to not have it on your person and to have it in a locked case in the vehicle and it has to be unloaded. Bear in mind that some jurisdictions, like NY City, consider a firearm loaded even if there is a magazine with ammo in the same case even though the firearm is not actually loaded.
There have been prosecutions of retired LEOs, who thought themselves to have been legally carrying under LEOSA, for violating that federal law because they were within 1,000 feet of a school. Think about driving through a big city like NY or LA or Chicago - where could you possibly be without being within 1,000 feet of a school! I wish I could find the link to the map I once saw of a large city showing how it was virtually impossible to pass through the city without going through a school zone within the definition of a school zone under that law.
I strongly recommend taking a course on LEOSA like the one offered by the Sheepdog Academy. I think it will give you a lot of info you probably did not have before. Sadly, it also leaves a lot of new questions too but at least you would be able to consider things you likely did not before taking such a course.
All the best,
Glenn B
1 comment:
Thank you.
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